Episode 1: The human skills behind great customer advocacy

Host  0:00  
Welcome to the Advocast, where we discuss all things customer advocacy, discover the latest trends, best practices, and tangible advice as we talk to some of the brightest and sharpest professionals in the industry. 

Host  0:14  
Hi Bianca, nice to see you. 

Bianca Del Vecchio  0:16  
Hi Maria, nice to see you as well. How are you? 

Host  0:19  
I'm doing great, and thank you so much for accepting our invitation to be part of our Advocate Podcast series. It's really great to have you on in here, and I'm so much looking forward to talk to you about customer advocacy.

Bianca Del Vecchio  0:33  
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here, and I've been looking forward to our conversation, so yeah, it's going to be a good one. 

Host  0:41  
Absolutely, thank you. So, let's just start. And my first question is, like, I really would like to know, like, how did you end up in this customer marketing universe? How was your journey? Where did you start, and why customer marketing?

Bianca Del Vecchio  0:55  
Yeah, looking back now, I first got started in the world of customer advocacy and customer marketing back in 2016 so going back a few years now, and I actually started doing customer storytelling, so that's where I got my start, and I'd been working at Microsoft, I had done a post grad in marketing, and then I was doing some work on the channel marketing team on the retail side, and I was doing training and evangelism, and you know that is very similar to advocacy in a way. I didn't know it at the time, but I learned about an opportunity to do customer storytelling, and I thought that sounds so interesting. I've never heard of anything like that before. I don't really know what that is all about. So I was very fortunate to learn more about that role, be able to take on that role and build out storytelling function for Microsoft Canada, and doing that role, I just learned so much about working with customers and how to really bring their voice, you know, showcase their voice and what they were experiencing and how they were able to accomplish so many things, and that was really my start in the world of customer advocacy, really grounded in that storytelling, and from there I worked on that program for a few years, and I really got to understand what that was really all about, that customer focus, and coming from a background in marketing, coming from a background in studying literature and arts in university, I really loved how that really brought it all together, and it was really people focused. So I did that for a few years, and then I was able to take on a different role at another company and manage an advocacy program there, and that's where I started getting to learn more about the other pieces of advocacy, and that was really exciting. I wanted to manage a program that had different components of it, and really build on that experience that I had started in storytelling. So I was able to do that, and that was a really exciting role as well, and just the experience to work again directly with customers is just so rewarding, and being able to build out different programs and just understand what really, you know, what customers really care about, and then getting to know them over time is just again so rewarding in this space. And last year I made the move into consulting, so I've been able to work with clients across customer advocacy, and for me that is just so much fun, and I love being able to see what people are working on and help them build up their advocacy programs. So that's where I am today, and it's been quite a journey, but it's really exciting to see how things have changed since, really, you know, learning about this space and getting started all those years ago, and where we are today, and then just thinking of, you know, the trajectory and where things are going, so exciting, and I'm really looking forward to everything that's, you know, in motion right now in this space. There's just so many exciting tools and new ways of managing programs and thinking about how to engage with customers. It's, it's a good time to be in customer advocacy.

Host  4:04  
Thank you. And I think we have a similar story and a similar journey. I also started in customer storytelling, so creating voice of the customer programs for Microsoft as well, but not for Canada, for different parts of the world, and then ventured into the other parts of the world of advocacy and kind of discovering the different bits and pieces, but I also love the customer centricity and how if the customer is in the center and what can we do with them, it's really exciting, Angry, and

Host  4:36  
I'm just a little curious, what did you do the post grad on you mentioned, yeah. So marketing, and I just noticed that you mentioned that part.

Bianca Del Vecchio  4:46  
Yeah, so I did. So I did my undergrad in English lit, and I did an Italian minor. I studied a little bit of Italian, and then I did my post grad in marketing management. So that was. You know, a broad marketing background, and I got to take lots of different courses that really were a good foundation for marketing, and then it was through that program it had a co-op placement that was part of the program, so I got to do a term, actually putting all those skills into practice, and that's where I landed at Microsoft, and actually was an intern there for it was almost a year, maybe a little bit longer than a year, actually, and through that I gained a lot of experience on that channel marketing team in retail, and doing that training and evangelism, and that's where I ended up staying for a little bit longer after that placement. So it actually was a pretty important part doing that post grad program, it got me on the path that led me to where I am today.

Host  5:42  
That's great. How great. I like to listen to the stories and see, like, how the life can take you into different directions. 

Bianca Del Vecchio  5:51  
It's so interesting. Because I didn't know where I, where it would take me, I just knew that it sounded really interesting, the customer storytelling role, and I thought that sounds like something that brings together my skills, what I'm interested in, and it's something new, and I, you know, I love a challenge. I love starting things from the ground up and figuring out how to build, and that was just a really great opportunity for that, but pulling together, yeah, all of that experience, and then just saying, you know, I follow what I think sounds interesting, I'm going to take that opportunity, and you never know where you're going to land, but for me, looking back now, I love looking back on that journey and seeing all the different pieces that fell into place, and then it all, it all kind of makes sense when you look back on it, for sure.

Host  6:35  
Yeah, exactly. Thanks. And also, you mentioned that throughout the, your, your time, and just being in the customer advocacy world, things have changed. So, what do you think? Like, how was it different from now? And also, what are you looking forward in the future? What is the exciting tools you mentioned? Exciting, what's the exciting part about being to be in customer advocacy at the moment for you,

Speaker 1  7:04  
yeah, yeah. It's a great question. I think you know, I've had some time now to see how things have changed. I know there are people who have been in this space for much longer, and I'm sure they've seen an even, you know, different trajectory from how things were going back, but in my experience, I think the things that have changed, really. There's just so many more ways to engage with your customers today. There are so many more tools that you can use to build into the customer journey to really bring advocacy and meet customers where they are. I think that's really exciting. So I just love following along and seeing all the new, you know, the new tools and the really cool features that let customer marketers really, you know, build that personalized engagement, and I think that's, you know, that's going to keep changing for sure. So it's good to keep on top of that, so that we always have an idea of where things are going, and especially working with clients, you know as well, and being able to recommend them the best solution, I think, is really important, but what's also changed, I think, too, is that you know advocacy is happening everywhere, and there are a lot of times where you can, you know, drive people towards a specific place, or you know, you can find where they are and try and interact with them in those places, but I think just taking that into consideration and being able to engage with your customers wherever they are,

Speaker 2  8:26  
whether

Speaker 1  8:26  
they're in a dedicated program or whether they're someone who is just happy to talk about how much they love your product or what it is that they're, they're being, they're able to use. I think just considering all of that advocacy is really, you know, really important to meet your customers where they are, because everyone is going to be thinking about engaging differently. And then, in terms of, you know, what hasn't really changed, I think advocacy is so important. Customers have always been and should always be at the center of everything that we do in this practice. I think customer centricity, like you said, is so important, and just being able to keep that as the foundation that hasn't changed. I think maybe how we go about doing that will continue to change, but keeping that right at the core of it, you know, customer advocacy, it has customer in it right there. So I think that's important for us to keep, you know, keep that focus, and that's definitely something that I don't see changing, and the other thing I think that remains consistent as well is value, and just providing that value to your customers and to your advocates, I think being able to not just think about rewards when you think about value, not just think about transactional things, but really think about the value that we can bring to our customers. That hasn't changed. Advocacy has always really been about that, but I think the way that we are thinking about it's really expanding and building those long-term relationships with our customers is. So important, so really just going out there and understanding who your customers are, so that that value piece is always at the center.

Host  10:08  
Amazing. And what skill set do you think do we need, or has helped you to become really successful in the space? You mentioned you came from literature background, you came for marketing background, communications part of it, but like specifically for you, why you think you're such a great customer marketer,

Speaker 1  10:33  
you know, Maria, I think you and I have this in common with the background and storytelling, right, where I think people come to advocacy from a lot of different backgrounds, and that's one thing that I love about it as well. People tend to land here coming from different parts of the business, whether it's customer success or it's marketing or other places, and they all bring a very different background that's so important in building that alignment internally. I think having a background in storytelling and starting in storytelling from an advocacy perspective, and where my career in this space started, I think that's been really foundational, because it's really centered on the storytelling, and I think storytelling, it's a piece of advocacy, you know, people have storytelling programs and content programs underneath advocacy, but I think coming to it with that lens of building a narrative and really getting to the heart of what that story is, whether you're telling your customer story, whether you're trying to pitch for something internally, whether you know it's a new, a new tool or a new program, I think being able to go back to that, that skill of telling a story, and who is the hero of the story, it's the customer, right, putting the customer in the hero role. I think is really important, and that's something that I even took with me from studying literature and studying English in university, and I think that's something that I draw on. So, my experience in this situation, I think, is really valuable, and I think being able to, you know, building on that, being able to take that storytelling and adapt it for the audience too, so regardless of who you're talking to, knowing what it is they're going to care about, again, whether you're working with your own teams, your peers, leadership, your customer, in a way, you're always trying to put that story forward in a way that's going to speak to them. So, whether that is, you know, communicating and how you present things, how you put that story forward, like what you choose to focus on, it could be the same story. Yeah, you're going to change it a little bit based on who you're talking to, and being able to adapt, I think, has been really helpful for me, and picking out the main pieces, and knowing is the person that I'm going to be connecting with, are they a visual person, do they want to see it, do they want data, do they want to know the data points, what can I pull in to make the story more real for them, and I think that, as important as storytelling is, as a function under customer advocacy, you know, telling customer stories and case studies. I think storytelling, in and of itself, is something that customer marketers can really lean on to help them manage their programs, and, you know, even manage their careers.

Host  13:17  
I so agree. And, by the way, we do have something more in common. I also studied literature. Yeah, what

Speaker 1  13:23  
did you choose? Literature.

Host  13:24  
I was studying English and German. It was my major, so all American and British kind of authors. So it was really like, yeah, like, yeah.

Speaker 1  13:35  
I did. I just English literature, and that was a mix, but I really enjoyed the courses on, like, Shakespeare. I took a lot of courses that were focused around the, you know, the Renaissance in that period, and that was really interesting. Yeah, and yeah, looking back now, I think even though I don't use that, you know, you don't use that knowledge in your day-to-day role, or at least maybe we don't,

Host  14:04  
but I don't really

Speaker 1  14:06  
know, but it's good, I think, to go back to like the critical thinking and being able to read something and connect with it, and I think that's something that I definitely use on the day to day, is just connecting with a story, a narrative, you know, a piece of content, and then building out. Okay, what are the most important pieces here? How can we, how can we analyze this? And I think even working in on, you know, the content side of things, digging into the pieces of the story that are going to make it something that people can connect with, so I think that there is another important piece of just that human element of sharing experiences and being able to pick up on that from anything, really, from a conversation with somebody, even if they're talking about something that feels very removed from, you know, a literature, critical studies back. Round, I think bringing that in is something that I definitely tap into.

Host  15:05  
Yeah, and I really do like how you ladies in Captivate, or how you all in Captivate, are using that human element to connect with your readers, whether it's a newsletter or a piece of LinkedIn post, or any piece of communication which you send out. I really enjoy reading your content. Oh,

Speaker 1  15:22  
thank you. Thanks. I mean, it's always coming back to the human element, right? Like, I mean, you hit on it exactly, Maria. And I think I go back to a conversation that I had early on when I was making the move from B to C, in a way, working with channel, but like working on the consumer side of things, moving into like a B2B environment, and you know, being asked, How would you manage that? How do you navigate the difference between B2C and

Host  15:51  
B2B?

Speaker 1  15:51  
And I think at the end of the day, whether it's B2B or B2C, you're still talking to a person, you're still communicating with an individual, and you can relate to them, you know, regardless of what it is that you're talking about. I think you have to keep the person at the center of it, and that's where you build those connections, and it's really about that, that human element of just, you know, person to person, that's where you're, that's where decisions are made. They're not, you know, they're not made by an entity or an organization, they're made by a person, so I think that is a very easy way to look at

Host  16:25  
it. I also think, like, behind every title, right, whether it's a VP, whether it's a CEO, whether it's the director, like, there is always a person, it's a John or Jane, or like behind the title, so this is also our try to look at the things when we are approaching our customers, it's it's seeing that customer, and when creating anything, it's always like, hey, what are they thinking about, what is their, you know, what keeps them up at night, like the thinking almost to the individual level.

Speaker 1  16:58  
Yeah, I love that, and I think you know, it's something that is important to take into consideration for advocacy as well, right. So, there are a lot of, you know, stereotypes about personas and what they do, and they don't want out of an advocacy program, and I think it's important to look beyond the assumption of, oh well, this specific type of, you know, role or persona, they won't be interested in this type of activity or this type of program, and it has to be this, and I think what's, you know, what I've learned through working on a number of different programs is that you never really know until you ask, you really have to do that research, I think, to know who your customer is, regardless of whether C-suite or, you know, whoever it is you're talking to, don't make assumptions. I think it's, you know, it's a good takeaway. Really, do the work to understand who people are and what they're interested in, because that's going to make you, as a customer marketer, so much more successful. Is just knowing your customer, just knowing who they are, and not relying on who you think they are, and maybe that's maybe it's based on something, but it's good to validate it every once in a while too, just to make sure it hasn't changed. Yeah,

Host  18:10  
perfect. I agree, and I want to ask you, from your experience managing programs and working with different clients, what skills have you noticed that others helped? Like, help, what did you notice that others have building the other programs? Like, what you know, what's the other thing which you think is there in terms of skills, which end up becoming a successful program?

Speaker 1  18:40  
Yeah, I think just to build on the last point we were talking about, is that that research piece, I think taking like a research, taking the time to do the research and having like a mindset around understanding your customer and how that's going to impact the work that you do as a customer marketer definitely research skills. I think being able to make a hypothesis on what your assumption is, and then go and test it, and go and talk to customers, do the research, analyze the results, and use that to build your program, or build whatever initiative that you're trying to do, I think being able to know the right questions to ask, be able to look at that information, that data objectively and take a very kind of objective view on what that data is telling you, and then being able to turn the data, those insights into a story, so take that data and being able to come, everything comes back to storytelling, so take it and tell the story of this is what we thought, this is what we learned, this is what we need to now go and do. I think having that that skill set and being able to take it right from the beginning to, like, you know, a. Establishing what you need to learn, and then going and sharing your findings. I think that skill is really important. So, I would say absolutely, research, and I would say, you know, being resourceful. I think there are there's a lot that you can do when you have a really big budget, you have a lot of resources, and that's not always the case for some people who are managing programs, so I think being resourceful and finding ways to get creative, so you can still make an impact and bring value, I think is a really important skill as well, so like thinking outside the box and always keeping that end goal in mind, like, what are your objectives? How can you be resourceful to get there? And I think that's another really good skill that customer marketers who are successful have. I think that's something they have in common. And then, you know, that relationship building aspect, I think, is also really, really important, not just with your customers, but internally as well. I always say that, you know, as someone who works in advocacy, you're building relationships like inside and outside. You need advocates inside the business too, right? So, you've got the people that you can call on who, who have, you know, seen your vision, and they support you on it. So, I think getting that alignment and part of that comes back into the research piece as well. I think just doing your due diligence to understand like who your internal partners are and how you can work together. Something that I did in a new role when I was managing a program was doing a little internal listening tour, just go around and just ask everybody, like you know, I'm new, like tell me what your experience has been so far, like what is keeping you up at night, what is, you know, if you could wave a magic wand and fix one problem, what would it be? I can't promise that I can fix it right now, but I like asking that question, tells you, it tells you what is, you know, for them the biggest, the biggest pain point that they'd love to fix. And I think listening and just taking all of that in and using that to inform your plans as well. I think that goes a long way in relationship building and being able to say, how can we help each other, how can, how can I, you know, as someone who works with customers within an organization, how can I help you, and how can you help what we're trying to accomplish with an advocacy program? And I think just being that person in the organization who has a really good pulse on what's happening internally, but also what's happening with your customers, and being able to bring that you can really paint that full picture, you get the whole all of the context internally and externally, and bringing that together. If you can do that successfully, I think it'll, it'll really reflect well on the success of your program.

Host  22:56  
Yeah, I totally agree, because, like, being the being in the role, like we are never really alone, like this function cannot be successful working in silos. There are so many connection points internally as well, trying to align around the customer, around the customer journey, around all the touch points, making sure that everybody's aware. And also, I like how we talk about doing the research and telling the story, because for me, also the most important part is gaining the trust.

Speaker 1  23:27  
Absolutely,

Host  23:29  
internal stakeholders, they actually allow you to reach out to your customers, or to their customers, like be able to run different activities. Like, for me, in order to do that, I think trust is a super important component, so the people don't create walls, but like really building that foundation for us to be successful in our roles, and no,

Speaker 1  23:55  
I think you mean that's it, 100% I love how you said it, because you can't exist in silos, you need to build that trust, because I think in a lot of cases there are people who are managing a lot of this work as a team of one or maybe as a team of two, and you know there, you know, there are a lot of examples of larger teams, but there are also a lot of people that are trying to figure out how to do it all, and I think you can't, you can't do it all on your own, so building that trust and breaking down those silos is so important, and yes, absolutely, trust is so critical, and I think just being able to show people you're willing to work with them as a partner, and especially when it comes to people that own those customer relationships, as a customer marketer, you need access to customers. You need to be able to reach out to them to get to know what it is that they need, and be another, you know, another team that can really support them and help celebrate their success, and be there for them. And I think it's a, it's something that a lot of, I think a lot of people are trying to figure that piece out. Building that trust and having whoever it is that is managing that account, whoever is the person who maybe is a little bit unsure of, okay, well, someone's coming in and they want my customer to do references, they want to do a story, they want them to speak at an event, like we can't talk to them about all these things right now because of whatever else is happening at the account, and building that relationship where you're an internal partner, and nobody wants to lose that customer. Everyone wants to make that customer's experience as you know, as good as it can be, and really build that trust across the whole team. If you can get that message across and really start building up there that you're in it together, that'll go a long way too. Because, yeah, absolutely, you need to have that relationship in place,

Host  25:43  
and I wanted to ask you, do you think is there any underrated skills when it comes to customer marketers, like you mentioned, resourceful being resourceful, is that is it that, or do you have something else, which you kind of thought about,

Speaker 3  25:59  
is

Host  26:00  
not so obvious, like, what should good customer marketer have in your opinion?

Speaker 1  26:08  
Yeah, you know, I mean, resourcefulness. Yes, it's definitely a skill that people should have. I think the other one that's really important that comes into play is prioritization. Prioritization is hard. I, this is something that I am always working on myself, because I think a lot of people's instinct is to try and, you know, commit to as much as they can. I want to, you know, again, speaking from my personal experience, I want to show impact. I want to be able to say, look at all these things that we've done, but I, you know, at the end of the day, you, you can truly only really work on so many things, and you can only work on one thing at a time, right? In any given time, I think it's really important to focus on, okay, what are our priorities, because if you say you're going to run everything at once, something is, you know, something has to give, because there's only, again, so many priorities that you can really bring forward. So, I think being able to say, okay, these are the things that our team, or me as a practitioner, or whatever it is, these are the things that we're going to focus on this quarter, or this here, and this is where we're going to add the most value, and this is where we need to be focused, because let's say you want to, you know, you want to run an advocacy program, and a cab, and a reference program, and you want to, you know, publish content, and all these pieces, understanding what the main priorities are, and I think this is where you need to go look, we know what is, what is your organization focused on? Where can you align to what it is the company is, or you know what your, your team, depending on how you know how far up you want to align those priorities. It's always good to see what the business is trying to work towards, because that's where you can add a lot of value. So, prioritizing based on that, I think, is where people will see success. It's, it's, it's hard to say, you know, we, we can't do all these things right now, but what really comes into what helps here is having a plan and having a strategy.

Speaker 1  28:14  
So, it's not that we're not doing everything, it's we're not doing everything right now, because we need to lay these three pieces down first, and that's what's going to help us build the foundation, so then next we can go and we can tackle these three things, and I think being able to prioritize on like a planning level like that is definitely an underrated skill, because that's what's going to again help you be successful, because you can pinpoint exactly what it is that you are going to work on achieving, and I think that is something that would benefit really anyone, depend, like, regardless of what your role is, or how you're working in customer advocacy, is just being able to say these are our priorities, and what that also lets you do is, it gives you something to point to if your business is really reactive, or people are coming to you and they say, we need, you know, this, and you can say, that's, that's, you know, this, this is what we're working on right now, because we've committed to these priorities, and that gives you something to fall back on, and it gives you a place to say, okay, well, we'll work that in, and we'll find the right time to get there, but it takes you out of that reactive model, where you're just people are just coming to you, and there's asking you for things, and doing that work upfront to say, okay, well, you know, whether it's a program, or whether you know, for example, let's say it's content you've decided to prioritize on, you know, three segments or three personas, or like three whatever it ends up being for that quarter, and then someone comes to you and they say, "I need, I need this, and it's like the business priorities are this again. You don't want to turn people down because everybody needs, you know, everyone needs. Of content, and I understand I've been there, but I think just being able to point back to the priorities and say this is what we really need to work on this quarter, and then next quarter we have a plan. It gives you just a framework, so that you're not just chasing reactive things

Host  30:15  
exactly. And I love how you said it's an underrated skill, and I agree, and I think also that it gives us a very good opportunity, because if the stakeholders are asking for something else, which is outside of the priorities, I think it's also a great indication that they really want to do more, but in order to do that, then it means, like, hey, we need more resources, we need more time, we

Speaker 3  30:38  
love to

Host  30:39  
do everything, but like, if you have any of these additional resources, let's, let's do it, let's expand, but if not, then I think it, it's a really great way, how to showcase. Okay, this is how we're keeping on track. What does we

Bianca Del Vecchio  30:56  
need to

Host  30:56  
change? Do you want me exactly,

Speaker 2  30:59  
or exactly? Otherwise,

Host  31:01  
as you said, it's 1,000,001 thing, which we could be doing at the given time, so

Speaker 2  31:06  
that's

Speaker 1  31:06  
right. And then you feel overwhelmed, and you feel like you don't have a good handle on what it is that you need to be delivering on, and then you find yourself in that position, and I hope nobody does, but where you feel like I'm not delivering on anything, nothing is being delivered, because nothing was prioritized, and I think that also, like you said, right, what's going to change if this, if this suddenly becomes something else, suddenly becomes a priority. You can look at the plan and say, okay, well, then we need to deprioritize something else to make this fit, so you can be more strategic when it comes to what you're actually delivering.

Host  31:40  
Great, amazing, and I want to shift gears a little bit, and Customer X is approaching. It's coming. It's going to be in October in Boston. You're going to be there, which is very exciting that we're going to meet each other in person. And I wanted to ask you, What are your expectations from this year's conference?

Speaker 1  32:01  
Yeah, I'm so excited about Customer X this year. It'll be my second year going. I was there last year, and I'm just.. I'm really looking forward to all the customer marketers together and being able to connect with people and just have those conversations. Where are people at? What are they thinking about? You know, what are what are the things that we, as you know, a community should be aware of, and what are the trends that are going to be impacting our work in the next year. And I think last year was just a really great opportunity to make those connections and have those conversations. So I'm really excited about that. I'm so excited about the agenda this year. There's so many great sessions, so I still need to pick all of the sessions that I want to attend, but there are so many to choose from, and I think that's really exciting. Being part of the customer excon ambassadors and just having a role in seeing how that agenda has come together has been amazing, and I think people are going to find that there's a lot of value to be had in not just attending those sessions, because there's an amazing lineup of speakers and a lot of workshopping sessions that are going to be, you know, a chance just to bring your experience and hear from other people, and then again, that aspect of just having everybody in one place, like the energy is amazing, it's just so nice to have that opportunity to get to know the people that you know you see on LinkedIn and the communities, and you get to actually meet people in person, which you know a lot of us work remotely, and the chance to come together a few times a year is something I definitely am excited about.

Host  33:38  
Yeah, the same here, and for me, we are working remotely, and also just being able to connect with all the people, which I'm seeing interacting, and which I've been interacting over LinkedIn, and just meeting them in person. Just, yeah, it's a very special opportunity, and I'm looking forward to it as well. And speaking about the gender and the sessions, you will be running a session, so what is your session all about?

Speaker 1  34:05  
Yeah, I'm co-hosting a session with Allison Bukowski. So we are both going to be leading a workshop, and it's really exciting because it's all about setting your KPIs. So how can you take an active role in what it is that you want to be working towards? It kind of comes back to this topic around prioritization and how you are going to set the KPIs that are going to really take your program to where you need it to go and be able to talk about the success, and not just have the KPIs be something that you feel disconnected from, but really something that you're taking an active role in creating, so that you can, you can feel, you know, when you're working towards it, it's something that you set, so it's not just, again, it's not just some numbers, but. Something you feel important to work towards, and how that can also be used to tell your own career story as well. So, taking that all together, we are bringing in a panel. So, Allison and I are kicking it off, but then we've got an amazing panel of experts who are going to be sharing their own stories and building their KPIs. So, I'm really excited to hear from people who have done this and I've seen success from it and share their their experience for others who are coming to the session, and then there's there's also a really great opportunity to workshop that in the session with your peers and with our panelists coming around as well to just lend their expertise, so it's going to be a really hands on session, so anyone who is interested in, you know, figuring out how they can take that more active role in what it is they are going to be working towards in their day-to-day jobs and setting those OKRs and KPIs, definitely would recommend coming to the session. It's going to be a really great practical, practical session, for sure.

Host  36:02  
And is it more like an advanced session, or is it anybody who's just starting with the program? Like, how did you divide? Like, who should be your audience? Who would you think would be the best target audience, and could benefit from your session?

Speaker 1  36:18  
It's a great question. I think I think anyone would benefit from

Speaker 3  36:23  
it, truly,

Speaker 1  36:25  
regardless of where you are in your career. I think you know, if you are interested in learning more about, you know, oh, like I didn't realize that I could have a say in this, or I didn't know that I could, you know, use my, my KPIs to help craft where it is that I want to take my career, and you know what my development could look like. I think it's a great session for someone who's just perhaps starting out, just to get that exposure from, you know, the panelists and from their peers on where people are, but I think also for anyone who's, you know, been doing this for some time, it's a great opportunity again, different perspectives to hear, just to get a sense of where everyone else is in their journey, and what's really exciting about the session, as well as we're doing a little bit of research beforehand, going back to that research piece to understand where people are right now with their, you know, with their relationship to their KPIs, what it is they are responsible for, like what are they being measured against. And then we're going to bring that data to the session, so we'll share it out as well. So, if you, if you don't make it to Boston this year, and you're not able to see what the outcome of that is, we'll definitely post the results of the survey, so anyone can see for themselves where the community is in terms of setting their own KPIs, and what that looks like, but we're going to work that into the session as well, so people can get that, that context of where the community is at right now.

Host  37:52  
Yeah, it's so nice that you practice what you preach.

Speaker 1  37:57  
I love, I love, I love getting the data. I think it's.. I find it really fun. I like seeing, you know, if what I thought the results would be. I'm always so curious to see what they actually are, and I think that tells a really interesting story. So, I always come back to that. But I love

Host  38:16  
also one underrated skills. Now, just like being really curious about, hey, curiosity

Speaker 3  38:24  
is,

Speaker 1  38:25  
I love that. I think, yes, absolutely. Curiosity always be curious about anything when it comes to your customers, when it comes to a process, when it comes to how, just how things are done, how you can work better with your, with your colleagues. I think always be curious, ask questions, and just get to know people and what it is they care about. Again, whether it's your customers, your teammates, your leaders, anyone that you're working with, because I think through that, not only will you, you know, build that connection and understand who they are as a person, but it'll make working together so much more valuable, and you'll really have a path forward, and you'll know what that looks like, and how to help each other deliver your best work. I think always be curious. I love that you brought that word up. It's a good one.

Host  39:17  
Great, and we are coming towards the end of our session, and I have very last final question, and that is, which we are asking all the participants. So, if you have an opportunity to write something on a muck or on a T-shirt, be like a tagline for customer marketing or advocacy, what would it be?

Speaker 1  39:38  
So, I think it always comes back to the customer, know your customer, that's what I would say. I would put that on, put that on a mug, put that on your desktop background. Know your customer, and I think in this case, customer can apply to your actual customers, it can apply to your internal customer. Everyone, in a way, is someone that you are, you know, your. As a customer, so think about who they are, and just always know what it is that they are interested in, what motivates them, what they value, and who they are. To that extent, I think always keep that center, keep that as a reminder. And I think if you do that, if you remember to know who your customer is and understand them, I think you're on a really great path to being successful in customer advocacy.

Host  40:26  
Agree, agree, I love it. Customer, period. Know

Speaker 1  40:32  
your customer. I think that's yeah, it's absolutely a

Bianca Del Vecchio  40:36  
formula for any, and

Speaker 1  40:38  
it's simple to remember words, easy to remember, know your customer, and I think that is just going to really help guide everything that you do. Always keep the customer at the center of it, at the core, and do right by your customers, and you know, just make sure that you're bringing them the most value that you can, and I think that would be a great thing to just, yeah, keep front and center wherever you can, just to remind you at all times.

Host  41:08  
Agree, hungry. Thank you so much, Bianca. Thank you for a lovely conversation. I'm so much looking forward to meet you in person. I hope you get the coffee, or a chat, or a drink, or a snack, or whatever. So I'm looking again. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 1  41:27  
Well, thank you so much for having me, Maria. This has been such a nice chat. I've enjoyed it so much, and absolutely, we will meet up for a drink or a chat in Boston for customer X in just a few weeks now, so I will see you there. Thank you again for having me.

Host  41:46  
This episode was brought to you by Wings for You, helping global B2B tech brands unleash the power of their customers' voice. Wings for You customer stories and advocacy programs help you deepen customer relationships, increase retention, and close more deals faster.